Special Guest - Damien Crough - Exploring the Future of Sustainable at Offsite 2023

Join us as we unlock the dimensions of prefabrication and timber construction in Australia with none other than Damien Crough, the founder of prefabAUS and an expert at Advanced Offsite consultancy. With a decade long experience in the industry, Damien's insights are primed to change the way you perceive the prospects of Prefab construction in the country. Get ready to venture into the intricate details of the upcoming Offsite 23 conference, geared to sketch a blueprint for the Prefab construction industry in Australia. Also on the table is the highly anticipated Building the Future we Want report, a comprehensive document that outlines 12 game-changing recommendations for the industry and government, accompanied by 19 critical targets to be achieved in the next decade.

But that's not all. We'll also discuss the towering Pines 15-story timber office tower, followed by an intriguing panel session, hosted by yours truly, with esteemed guests Sean Bull from XLam, Karl-Heinz Weiss, and Nick Hewson from Virdi. As an added bonus, we'll take you on a virtual excursion of the Prefab Oz conference, exploring architectural marvels like the Sink Bathroom Pod Factory and the timeless Singapore Houses in Collingwood. We'll also talk about the World Heritage Listing application for these distinctive buildings that stand as an epitome of prefabricated construction. So, brace yourselves for an exhilarating journey through the future of construction, sustainable building techniques, and the innovative initiatives that are shaping the industry.

Production by Deeelicious Beats
Music "Game Play" by Quality Quest
Podcast is a Mass Timber Construction Journal Production
www.masstimberconstruction.com

Transcript

Paul: 0:01

Good morning, good afternoon, all, good evening. We're everyone in the world today. Welcome to the mass timber construction podcast. It's Paul Kramer, back with another special guest episode. And today we have an extra special guest, the person I've known for many, many years We've worked together on the board at Prefab Oz and coming up very, very soon is our national offsite conference, offsite 23. And to talk about all things prefabrication in Australia, including some mass timber thrown in, is Damien. Damien, do you want to introduce yourself to the audience and tell everyone what you do now and tell us a little bit about what the conference has got coming up in store for everyone in Australia?

Damien: 1:30

Yeah, thanks, pk, and great to be finally invited onto the mass timber construction podcast. I was wondering whether you were ever going to invite me, but thank you. It's good to be here and I'm actually in country Victoria at the moment and so hopefully this connection is okay. It can be subject to a little bit of dropping in and out, but should be fine. Yeah, so as you know, we've worked together for a quite a few years at Prefab Oz.

Damien: 2:03

Prefab Oz is the peak industry body for offsite construction in Australia and 10 years ago this year, we founded Prefab Oz, and we founded Prefab Oz at a Melbourne University linkage grant event for the future proofing schools program. So that's where it all started. 10 years ago, a couple of people like wanted people in the same room formed a bit of a steering committee and then the following year, in 2013, we incorporated as a nonprofit and we've been working tirelessly ever since to promote offsite construction and prefabrication and all the different building techniques in Australia. So, and it's really is an exciting time right now. Other than that, I also have advanced offsite, which is my specialist consultancy, and I work with builders and developers and manufacturers around, helping them with their offsite capabilities and opportunities. So yeah, that's also keeping me quite busy outside of the Prefab Oz work and just been on the road a bit today.

Damien: 3:16

Actually I've been trying to get out and visit some of our new members, which I always like to do, and today I was in Shepparton visiting Gradian projects. So they're a new Prefab Oz member and I've just on the way back I've got to go to Ballarat tomorrow to visit HUCX, so I thought I'd just stop at the farm in Heathgat and hang out here and then also over to Kloss in Geelong tomorrow as well see how the factory set up's going. So yeah, I think that's really exciting news. They're still sort of moving into that facility, setting it all up down there in Geelong and the old Ford plant. But yeah, it's a lot going on and you know, I think getting out to see the members is really an important part of the role and also trying to, you know, find connections and opportunities for new members to network within the offsite and Prefab sector. So that's what I've been focusing on and it's good to be here.

Paul: 4:21

You know, prefab Oz is pretty much founded on this idea of trying to make Prefab occasion a mainstream form of construction. And you know we've got lots of initiatives going on, anything from working on the NCC, the National Construction Code, through to the Build Back Better approach which is happening in Australia, and doing some work with some advanced manufacturing growth funds and centres around that, and of course that's all going to culminate in some really important work that's going to come together for the conference which is offsite 23. Give us a bit of a taster for what you expect in the rundown to offsite 23?.

Damien: 5:01

Yeah, look, I'm really excited because one of the things that we've been working on at PrefabOz for the last 11 months what we call the Better Buildings and Better Bottle Lines program, which was an AMGC funded project and what we did is we went, we started in Adelaide in November last year and we ran a workshop there where we presented a whole lot of industry information and we had a very interactive and engaging session with the industry. So we had manufacturers, we had material suppliers, we had architects, we had engineers, researchers, all in the room and we did that then in Melbourne in February, we did it in Sydney in March and then we finished off in Brisbane in May this year. And all of that information and feedback and industry input. We took that and we put that into what we're calling Building the Future we Want, and this is a roadmap and a report that we've written and we're actually going to be releasing this myself and Lance Warrill, who was my co-author and who helped me run the workshops around the country. So that's something I'm really excited about. It's been written in a way that we have produced 12 very strong recommendations for the industry and for government on how to support and grow the industry, and we've also highlighted 19 key targets between now and 2033. So, looking ahead for the next 10 years on, what are the targets we should be trying to achieve for the industry and how are we going to go about doing that and what supports required? So for me, that's one of the big exciting things that we're going to be doing.

Damien: 6:38

There's so much happening at the conference and specifically in the mass timber area as well, there really is a bit of a focus, particularly on the second day. So, well, you'll be there, mate. You're hosting one of the sessions there. We're going to be talking about the Pines 15-story timber office tower. So Nigel Burden from ACOM is going to be talking about that. So that'll be exciting. There'll be a panel discussion with you hosting, and we've got Sean Bull from XLAM, we've got Karl Heinz Weiss and a bit of an industry legend who will be part of that, as well as Nick Hussin from Veriti. So I think this is going to be some really good discussions and some really great opportunities to engage with industry leaders around these things. And we've also got Fraser Paxton talking a bit about his experience to penalise timber construction in the residential sector and how to get more affordability into that market. So, yeah, I think there's huge opportunities to come and listen and learn all about different aspects of the prefab industry.

Paul: 7:50

Yeah, and Pete Morrison is going to be there from Green Timber Technology talking in the morning on the Tuesday morning that is, and of course we have our AGM coming up, so there's a whole almost regulatory governance process which needs to sort of intercept around the conference itself. So it's one of the busiest times for us as an organisation. It's great to have the Mast Timber Focus Group forum together in the conference there. I really do appreciate that. I think everyone that is involved in the sector appreciates that. And Fraser, he did his PhD at the University of Melbourne under the ARC and he's become quite prominent in his own right. So it's great to see these people traverse through the industry and then get a stage at our conference, offsite 23. You also got some other notable things going on. There's a tour that's going on. Tell us about that tour that you've organised, because it looks quite inviting for anyone that hasn't considered signing up for it yet.

Damien: 8:55

Yeah so, and actually numbers are limited too. So if anyone's interested they need to jump on and get registered as soon as possible. But yeah, it's great to actually be back in Melbourne because it's a lot easier to organise the site tours. We haven't been able to do them, obviously, with COVID etc. For a few years and then being interstate just makes it a little bit more challenging. But we're back to doing site tours, which we're really excited about. This year we're going to be visiting the Sink Bathroom Pod Factory, followed by a Mervak display which is done all modular by Modscape, and then we're going to finish up at the Singapore Houses in Collingwood.

Damien: 9:36

So architect Andrew Muir over the last few decades has been collecting the prefabricated Singapore Houses which were bought out to Australia for the gold rush in the 1800s and there were thousands of them built. He's an amazing guy. He's assembled a couple of these on his property in Collingwood and he's also restored another one which is all in pieces ready to be assembled onto a specific site. And you know, he's got all of the window frames, his repaired, all of the bottom plates, top plates, all the roofing. This guy is amazingly organised. I wish I was as organised as him.

Damien: 10:14

He's got this building. He's even got the original nails to assemble these buildings back together, all set out and ready to go, and so, yeah, and the other thing is they've put an application for World Heritage Listing of these buildings, so they've currently got an application in. I actually attended the launch a couple of years ago and they've got some great support for that. But, yeah, we're really excited to be able to come in and see them and we're going to be able to walk through one, which is actually a tenancy, but the tenant is very accommodating and he's letting us come into his house and have a look. And, yeah, really, really interested to see that. I mean, these things are 200 odd years old and they still look fantastic. So it just goes to show that prefabrication and timber panelised construction has been around for a long time and still going strong.

Paul: 11:10

I was going to say there's the Singaporean hearts of made of timber and they actually. If you look at the image that exists in the agenda of the itinerary that's on our website, the prefabos website, prefabosorg, you'll be able to see one of the huts and it's an impressive looking structure, given that it's how old it is, and it's made from timber, which was a really nice connection back to this podcast, and so those tours are about to sort of book out very soon, so you need to get in quick for that. What about just general admission into the conference itself? Is there still tickets available for that?

Damien: 11:55

Yes, there are still tickets available the ability to register for the site visits, because you can't register unless you've bought a ticket. And there's only about 40 spots, so I think we've got 25 already filled. So we need and where is it this year? So this year the conference is at the Melbourne Connect building, 700 Swanson Street, carlton. So it's the brand new building that replaced the old Carlton Connect, which was the old Royal Women's Hospital. So it's been through a few lives, but they pulled that down and built a brand new, amazing building there and we're very lucky enough to have access to that. So we definitely do appreciate the support and connection that Melbourne University have always provided for Prefab Boz, also being one of the original founders of Prefab Boz. So, yeah, that's where we'll be.

Damien: 12:47

Nice and central tram straight to the city in five minutes and plenty of good places to eat. I've actually just found my new favourite place, which is Dragon Hot Pot. I don't know if you've been there, but it's just across the road. It's amazing. You go in have you been there? You go in there and you get your bucket and you fill it with all your meats and vegetables and tofu and then you choose your noodles, and it's ridiculous. I think I went a bit overboard last time it was about $35 for a noodle bowl, but you can get carried away.

Damien: 13:15

So, yeah, plenty of good places to eat. And we've got a couple of networking functions. We've got Monday evening, then we've got the one on the Tuesday evening. There's the Fleetwood Challenge Cup, which is the University Challenge, and so this year we had Curtin University with two entries and Monash with one, near to the finals. And we're also doing something different this year for the first time we're doing a People's Choice Award, so everyone who attends the conference can vote on their favourite out of the submissions and we'll be awarding a People's Choice to the winners of that as well.

Paul: 13:49

And just for the audience, who are international, won't know who Fleetwood is or what the Fleetwood Challenge Cup is, can you give us a bit of a taster of what Fleetwood has sponsored? Fleetwood is a company that does modular construction. What is this challenge?

Damien: 14:03

What is the Cup? So the Cup is about collaboration and it's about DFMA and it's about which is Design for Manufacturing Simulator and it's about learning how the approach to modular successful modular projects is designing with prefabrication in mind from the beginning. So what we recognise and I've recognised this for a long time is that a lot of people believe that prefabrication and off-site construction is a bit of a silver bullet for a project. You get to a point where you can't make it work or let's go and see if we can turn it into a prefab building. That's just not the case. I mean really the collaboration up front with the design team and the builder and the developer. It really is a collaborative approach that needs to happen, and so what we try to do is foster that collaboration with the design team.

Damien: 14:58

So the universities have to put together a multi-disciplinary team comprising of architects, engineers and construction managers and they're given a brief and they have to come up with a design response using modular construction for that project. And this is the 40 now, and we've seen some really good submissions over the years. We seem to be it seems to be growing each year and gaining a lot more momentum, and the benefit of this is that we now have all of these young, smart kids from uni going out into the industry with a whole lot of knowledge about prefabrication, off-site construction and design for manufacturing, assembly and the process that is involved in how to, you know, really undertake and deliver a successful prefab project. So that was really the premise of the project. It was that we recognized there was a need for more skills and knowledge around designing for prefabrication at the front end of a project.

Paul: 16:04

And having been a host and been, you know, in a review panel for the Fleetwood Cup probably the first year I think we ran it the designs are impressive. Like you would not expect the quality that comes out from the university students in these interdisciplinary teams to be at that exceptional level, and it's always blown my mind as to you know who the winner is and what they've actually been able to achieve. So we wish that all the entrants who have made it through to the finals for the Fleetwood Challenge Cup the best of luck, and in a couple of weeks time we'll know exactly who has won that.

Damien: 16:43

So, yeah, looking forward to it. Yeah, and they'll all be on display too with the conference. So there will be another opportunity to have a look at the submissions and also do your people's choice vote, so that'll be great. Another couple of aspects, too, are some of the work around the design for manufacturer assembly and disassembly in timber structures. So we've got Lisa Oddenhouse from UQ, who's going to be talking about you know the work she's doing in that aspect. We also have Carson Death-Leftson from X-Frame, which is a really unique timber framing system which is just brand new to the market. I think they've just completed their first few fit out projects. So that'll be interesting to hear about. And we also have Lisa Curie from University of Queensland about adaptable and scalable housing in the timber sector.

Damien: 17:42

So, yeah, look, lots of links back to timber construction and mass timber and panelized timber. And you know, I guess the thing is we really appreciate the diversity of the industry in Australia. We have, you know, such a good, strong timber prefab sector. We've also got those who are in the steel and concrete sectors and I think some of the other things that we're starting to recognize which is really interesting and exciting is the move now to the sort of complementary use of materials and where we're mixing different materials in different projects to get the best outcome for the projects. So, yeah, it's also something I'm interested to hear a bit more about at the conference.

Paul: 18:28

Yeah, I think the big movement around the world right now is that if we think that carbon is the measure of sustainability and construction, then you know circular economy is really one of the principles and the drivers behind this and this adaptive reuse and cradle to cradle.

Paul: 18:46

And then how you measure that as a function of life cycle, how you even rate buildings based on their adaptive reuse at end of practicable life, of the first life of the building. And then you have salvaging from demolition, repurposing and using digital technology to be able to say, well, hang on, I've got these elements that exist in this building, let's reconfigure those elements to produce another building. You know the world is so vast when you think about the circular economy principles and applying these to construction that it's great to see that we're starting to get that coming through in the presentations and we're really starting to lead at the forefront in prefabrication for the circular economy, because there needed to be a change, there needed to be a challenge, there needed to be a champion, and it looks like our industry sector must. Timber, steel, concrete, whatever material it is. It's not necessarily the material type, it's agnostic to that, it's the approach, and I think that's the thing that's very different now.

Damien: 19:49

Yeah, and I think, being that it's now, you know, in the curriculum of quite a few universities, you're right. I mean the circular economy. For me it's about the design for manufacture, assembly and disassembly, reuse, repurposing and also, I think you know it becomes building parts, then become a commodity. You know, you can. They have value, they have inherent value. If they can be disassembled, reused, reconfigured, recycled, then they have an inherent value and I think that that is what the circular economy should be about. No-transcript. You know very much specific to carbon and those sorts of things. I think the ability to reuse, recycle and also design buildings for a much longer lifespan, you know that's where we're gonna see a significant benefit out of this approach.

Paul: 20:38

I know we've got some incredible sponsors who are on board this year. Unfortunately, I believe and correct me if I'm wrong we don't have any more exhibition space necessarily available for people on that mezzanine level right. So who are our big that's?

Damien: 20:54

what's sold out? Absolutely, yeah, sold out. So, yeah, I just like to recognise our partners. So Exlan, fleetwood, australia, cr Kennedy, blue Scope, goodwy, metz, standards Australia, and now exhibitors this year at CombiLift CR Kennedy, dowell Windows and Doors, fleetwood, m-modular Multi-Panel, pacific Irithanes, proclima, promat, Vertex Systems and Exlan. So it's a full exhibition and we have some great sponsors again supporting the industry. So big shout out to them, as always, because we couldn't do this without them. We are a non-profit industry organisation and, yeah, this allows us to do the work that we're doing.

Paul: 21:40

Yeah, it's great to see Exlan still leading the charge there. You know the May arrest in peace. Gary Corfield was really a quite prominent individual who supported, you know, exlan being a sponsor a pinnacle sponsor for Prefab Oz many, many years ago, and actually the anniversary of his passing is only in about four days' time. So much respect to you, gary, for what you've done and the legacy that you've left, and you're still in memoriam on our website. And great to see Exlan being part of the sponsorship package in the team leading the charge for us. Again, it fits in with this podcast and mastibb construction, so we couldn't be proud to promote the event based on that very important sponsorship that they provide us. So is there any last words that you want to give us, damien, because we've run out of time, but love to see whether you want to give us some words of wisdom to part around this conference or Prefab Oz or anything else, that's in particular.

Damien: 22:38

Yeah, I just I think well, first of all, thank you for having me on and I'd love to come back again If you'll have me. But yeah, look, the conference this year, maybe not the conference this year the conference this year it's our 10 years of Prefab Oz, you know, the industry has moved so much in the last 10 years. It's such a different industry. You know it was, you know, talking about Prefab and Offsite 10 years ago. It was a real struggle, it was a real challenge.

Damien: 23:07

Now it's at the forefront of everybody's discussion. It's like, you know, with what's happened with COVID, with supply chains, with labour costs, et cetera. It's everyone's pointing to it as you know, the next or the only way for it really. So, look, if you're not part of the conversation, you're just not going to be in the conversation. So don't get left behind. Get on board, be a part of it. Come to the conference, learn all about it. There's some significant, you know, education that goes along with that, as well as the networking. So you know, for business people, decision key, decision makers in businesses, as I recommend, come along, learn all about it and get involved.

Paul: 23:47

Well, thank you, mate. I appreciate it. And what's the dates for the event, please?

Damien: 23:52

So our site tour is on Monday 21st of August, followed by two days of conference. So 22nd and 23rd of August, two full days of conference at Melbourne Connect 700, swanson Street, carlton.

Paul: 24:05

Excellent.

Damien: 24:05

And just get onto prefabozorgau and conference page there and there's a link through to joining the conference.

Paul: 24:14

Brilliant, thank you. Well, thanks for being on. Definitely get an invite to come back, I'm sure of that. So maybe we'll talk about something that's related to circular economy and adaptive reuse and recycle cycle. Yeah, that'd be great.

Damien: 24:29

There's so much happening in that space and I just think it's a that's where we should be focusing on. You know, I think there's so much opportunity there Brilliant. Thank you. All right, all the best, pk. Thanks for having me on. See you at the conference in a couple of weeks' time. No worries, thank you. Music Ç you.