Mass Timber Construction Podcast

Mass Timber Construction Podcast - Special Guest Episode with Mark #BS Wille

January 06, 2021 Paul Kremer Season 1 Episode 2
Mass Timber Construction Podcast
Mass Timber Construction Podcast - Special Guest Episode with Mark #BS Wille
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Show Notes Transcript

With an absolute passion for timber and sustainable building, Mark #BS Wille is the 
BareNaked #EngineeredWood Carpenter & Storyteller. Educating the industry about Building Science & OffSite Innovations to BuildChange with Green Steps Forward. 

Mark's motto is "Connecting~Consulting~Constructing with a Passion. " ~mw

We discuss what the new year holds for the mass timber sector, I upset Mark by inadvertently launching his new segment, before he has launched it himself! 

I hope you enjoy the wonderful, light-hearted and captivating interview. I have actually listened to this episode at least three times myself - whilst in the studio. 

A great man, a great purpose and a true champion of the cause, thanks for the support Mark. 

Production by Deeelicious Beats 
Music "Game Play" by Quality Quest
Podcast is a Mass Timber Construction Journal Production 
www.masstimberconstruction.com 

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Mark:

Welcome to the show everyone. We have a very, very special guest on. I've known our next guest for a number of years, and so today is with great pleasure to bring to you Mark BS. stands for Build Small, build Smart, build Sustainably Willy. So let's get into it and speak to the one and the only Mark Willy.

Speaker 3:

It's good to catch up with you after many years on LinkedIn, my friend.

Speaker 4:

Agreed, agreed And happy holiday and a blessed New Year to you, man.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes, we had a very, very nice, warm Christmas period. Between New Year's and Christmas, the kids enjoyed the sun, the pool, good food, good music and good drink to go with it. So it was a fantastic time, my friend. That's great, and how old are the kids? So 21 in March this year, right down to 10. So there's 10 years between top and bottom. But, yeah, three girls and we had to keep going till we had a boy. So our son, he's with us now after 10 years.

Speaker 4:

Well, that's lovely.

Speaker 3:

It is, it is. And what did you do? You didn't do anything. It would have been quite cold where you are.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, So I'm not. I'm not so much a holiday type person. What I enjoy about it is is my phone rings less And I don't need to reply to emails, And with the pandemic we don't go anywhere anyway.

Speaker 4:

It allows for recap of the year, strategizing for the next year, just with a clear, clear head in front of me. And then, as I mentioned in our chat, i like to celebrate January 6th. So from my religious upbringing, january 6th is known as a Three Kings Day, so that's when the Kings came And I lived in Mexico for many years And that holiday is very big in the Latin culture, like they put out fireworks and everything Like it's it's. It's that big of a day. It's not a Santa Claus thing, yeah, so So I've enjoyed that, and that's a fond memory to bring in.

Speaker 4:

And I'm not a New Year's person. I like reflection and planning, but I find that that's an odd thing to celebrate. So, yeah, that's just how I work. And my parents always said don't go out on New Year's because it's rookie night, they called it. That's when all the rookies go out.

Speaker 3:

So I think we were celebrating the fact that 2020 was coming to an end and 2021 was coming in, and I think, certainly from my perspective, that has been the biggest joy was to say goodbye to that year, hello to a new year. I don't think for a minute that the change in date is going to transform what's happening around the world. However, i'm hoping it'll be better for many, many people, including ourselves. I think it's a new year, new start, new podcast, new shows. Tell me about what you've got going on. Tell me about 55, passive health in 55 seconds.

Speaker 4:

I will. I'm gonna answer the first thing first, before we say great. I remember 2019, there was such hype heading into 2020. Like, not all New Year's have hype, 2020, i think, had a lot of hype because there wasn't a political thing in the way at least for America there wasn't And the industry was strong And so it had that numerology thing behind it as the 2O 2O and it just worked from advertising and marketing and all that sort of things. And then, sure enough, like it was a shit show and obviously many people's health and way of life changed. So I agree with you 100% that the 2021 could be embraced. I will say the benefit of all those things that happened in 2020, we always have to find the positive. The benefit is for people like you and I.

Speaker 4:

In our industry, indoor air quality became a household name. We've been trying to get that to a household name for 10 years. It is a household name. Now, how it got there is not a pleasant treat, but the fact that it's there, it's a pleasant treat, and the fact that we now are looking at how we live in our homes, how we do not need to live in our businesses, and how we can integrate with nature and have healthy, fresh environments is actually a regular conversation, and all two presidential candidates in America both spoke about carbon's questoring on the stage of a candidacy for president. So I think for people that are into mass timber and people that are in the past house, we literally saved 15 years of getting somewhere, and we expedited that, as well as the need for off-site construction And the things you and I are very passionate about. So I just wanted to put that on the table because I think it's very important that we note that change.

Speaker 3:

I agree with you, my friend, and I think the next genesis is passive house technology with things like mass timber. You know, mass timber, for 110 mil dimensional thickness in the metric doesn't give you close to even an R1. So we need something else to give us insulation properties. You've got airflow, you've got healthiness of the building. When it's a timber building You have to consider it's a naturally engineered product. It has hygroscopic, it exchanges moisture with the air. It needs to have an environment in which it can prosper. And I think passive house is one of the most fundamental philosophies that can be applied either to the fullest extent looking at the two big six manuals for applying it fully or at least in terms of principles and philosophy from an onset that gives you a better and a healthier building. So amen to that.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and what you said with the high grow is absolutely brilliant. So I grew up my dad ran lumberyards. He was a buyer and an op manager for lumberyards, so I have a different background when it comes to wood. It's my favorite thing in life And some people like food, i like wood, and so I always say we have to take it down to the remedial level and say trees love water. However, when we sacrifice the tree right and when we use and transform the fiber for all of its many uses, water is now the enemy. So if we control the moisture, that fiber will do so good for humans. It's unbelievable. But we have to always understand that water is the harshest chemical on the planet and the biggest killer of our buildings. But wood is one of the most carbon sequestering products on the planet And its diversity is still growing.

Speaker 4:

Right, like you mentioned the mass timber and bust your heart for saying it, because it's used for so many architectural prints these days, but it is a term that never existed. The word that existed, at least for the building codes in North America in the 1800s. Right, because that's all we had. That's the only way you could do that was heavy timber. That word is still a part of the Canadian building code, but mass timber is what the marketing and all these people use And heavy timber doesn't work, but mass timber works. And you know, passive house doesn't necessarily work but net zero works. So we find these things in our world and even net zero is a floor of a branding name. But we have to embrace what's working, what the non-industry folks here, how they respond or how they don't respond, it's awesome, very telling.

Speaker 3:

Very much so. And on the heavy timber. So there's also in Australia a heavy timber timber aspect to insurance codification. So this is the handbook for how you assess a risk from a fire, in particular for timber, And they actually have, you know, glue, laminated columns and beams as part of the makeup in the insurance catalog, if you want, for risk.

Speaker 3:

However, when I went to speak to people at very, very large firms that are doing risk assessment and said, do you think we can migrate these legacy risk assessments and analysis from Yonder Year and bring them forward and provide equal footing for mass timber compared to concrete and steel, the answer was no And in fact the answer was for us to assess the risk based on the different way the mass timber is working. We would actually have to have a real life fire to be able to say 100% what the risk is. So let's hope that never happens. But it's very interesting that there's this renaissance of timber. It's the old being made new again And you're absolutely right, It's the wraparound of the buzzword, the vernacular of the common error that really drives the I guess, the genesis of this next wave of construction which we're all riding right now.

Speaker 4:

It's interesting that they said that And I guess, i guess in a way it's welcomed. Right, we could take the antagonist and the protagonist view, because the heavy timber of the day was pure natural fire, right, and it was your dug for species and how they cut it from the logs and the long-linked timbers that we had, and certainly much of Australia, went to Europe, right, A massive timber exodus. But now today our mass timber, i guess, is all engineered right And in all of its form. So, yeah, the fact that we have these binders and these glues and these additives to protect it and to stop the moisture certainly needs to be assessed for its flame spread and flame retarance.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, and that's a whole nother kettle of fish which you and I are not going into today, my friend, because glue and adhesion factors you know, charlemella fell off is all very, very much a hot topic at the moment And I'm sure at some point we'll get to talk about that. But right now let's park Here he goes. He's got his big cross-section of timber that he's used for a barbecue out the back. I mean the video screen stops it.

Speaker 4:

But when we did the fire testing of that compared to so our product is a two by six. The two by six is still good, you know, but you could not get that to ignite. That was actually charring from, you know, the deliberate heat for whatever. It was an hour right. So it didn't ignite. The two by six, i guess, didn't ignite either, but it charred a lot more than that. So you're right, if we get into fire and fiber, we're going to be on the phone for three hours.

Speaker 3:

And it's a topic that's dear to my heart. I think it's one of the perplexing puzzles that we need to solve and resolve, and I think that there's at least three different derivative technologies in the market now. From an engineered mass timber, clt perspective Yeah, obviously glue laminated timber as well. But you know, let's park that one, let's get back on track. Amazing segue I love the segues that go for 10 minutes. 55, passive house in 55 seconds. Tell me about this initiative, tell me what you're trying to achieve.

Speaker 4:

So you know you have to have a goal for the year. What are you going to? what hat are you going to put on? What are you going to do different? And many social media platforms limit your video uptake, right, the download that you put forward to 55 seconds, yeah, okay. So if that's what they're doing, let's honor it and let's work inside of it.

Speaker 4:

So almost every post that I've done the last several years, anything that had an S, i got the F out and I put in pH, right. And for those of us in the industry, we see it, we get it, we laugh. For those of us not in the industry, it's a head turner and it gets them to dive in, right. So even in my screen, even in my screen here, it says it'll come up in a second. It'll say invite your friends. It should come up right now. So it says invite your friends, right.

Speaker 4:

So I figured no one has time for an elevator pitch more than a minute anyway. So how can I reach out to my friends over the pound, to my friends downtown, to my friends on the East Coast, my friends in Canada, wherever they are, and how can I say all I need you to do is pop on Zoom with me and we'll talk, we'll catch up And out after our conversation. I want 55 seconds. I want 55 seconds from you Now. If they happen to make, let's say, a mini split, right, they're gonna talk about mini splits. If they make exciting, they're gonna talk about that. They're gonna bring their passion forward. But I'll have 55 second clip that I can release and then, hopefully, they meet one of my other contacts, i meet one of their other contacts, but this happens organically. We know this. So it's 55 seconds and you're with the people that will just talk about Passinghouse at 55 seconds. I know it's not enough time, but that's all they're getting is 55 seconds.

Speaker 3:

I love it. I love it And I actually did read it and I did get it because I know you, i know what you stand for, i know where you come from. But I did have a struggle. When I read the first one, i went okay, i can't decipher the first word, let's have a look at P-Hive. And I went oh, p-hive? no, that's an F-P-H, it's a five. And then I went back to 55 and then I went back to Passinghouse and I went this is a fantastic concept.

Speaker 4:

I wish I had a more of it. Yeah, the other fun part is it was hard for you to decipher because there wasn't I haven't uploaded the content yet. So I have a few videos that I'm gonna upload this week and then someone can see it and then it'll take up. But you saw it in concept stage, so that adds a little bit more fun with the P-H right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, and I've got a number of people that I'll refer to your 55 second Passive House group and follow you on LinkedIn. I presume you'll set up something. give it's in its infancy. I'm sorry, i've sort of let the cat out of the bag. It's probably a little bit of the news. I've got a segment called On The Great Vine Mass Timber, great Vine And so I've let the cat out of the bag early, so we'll launch at the same time. I'll get permission from you and I'll be a participant on your 55 seconds as well. Passive House for 40 seconds.

Speaker 4:

And I hope you bring forward a Timber Project with Passive House. So do you know God? I hope you know. If not, i'll send an introduction. Do you know who, scott?

Speaker 3:

Kennedy is. I know the name. I don't have a connection with Scott And answer your other question, i do have a Passive House Mass Timber Project here in Victoria. In Melbourne There's a Monarch University Project which is Passive House So I can talk specifically about that. Who provided the CLT? who the architect, the Pranage Project engineers are? It's just received its Passive House certification And congratulations. This is really starting to drive a genesis for Mass Timber and Passive House in Australia and the Asia Pacific region.

Speaker 4:

So the city they did this in was Victoria or Melbourne.

Speaker 3:

In Melbourne. Yes, correct, yes, literally where I live right now. If I drive 25 kilometers, i can go straight to that building and actually visit the building. It's a street accommodation building.

Speaker 4:

And how are you involved in this? from Paul.

Speaker 3:

We were a tender for the CLT component. Unfortunately at X-Lam the plant wasn't ready in time so we couldn't produce the CLT. And I was actually on the phone to Multiplex and one of the project managers said we've got two projects This one down in Frankston in the peninsula, which is the Passive House one, or this other one at 276 in Glinda Street in the Sydney. This one will go in about probably six months, this one will we need you to start tomorrow doing the shock warrings. And I said I'm really sorry our plant isn't open yet. So I had to sacrifice the Passive House one that's got all the accolades and go for the commercial project at 276 in Glinda Street. So thank you, tim Duggan, for Multiplex, if you're listening to this at any stage in the future. I would have loved the Passive House concept but I got too used to it and picked as a consolation Both great projects with multiple layers.

Speaker 4:

Right and, like we know, in our careers, right Sometimes the best projects are the ones that you must pass on right And but you had the other one. That certainly took a lot of your time. A commercial project uses a lot of material right, so correct.

Speaker 4:

Well, congratulations on that project And that managed number one, wow. So we'll have to find a way to get this covered on some of my other shows and bring that forward. I love the architecture in Australia. I was originally drawn to it from all my work years ago, with containers and tiny spaces, Yes, But boy. Passive House is becoming a LinkedIn you can echo one day without seeing Passive House in Australia together. It is literally I don't know if I hate to use the word on fire in our industry, but it is on fire.

Speaker 3:

Yes, i agree Not the appropriate word, mark, and we're not talking about fire. As much as you keep gravitating back to talk about fire, we're not talking about fire.

Paul:

Bless your heart. This is a great way to kick off the week.

Speaker 4:

I know your Monday is wrapping up soon. My Sunday night is wrapping up, so we'll talk in a few days, brother.

Speaker 3:

No worries, mate, take care and stay in touch and keep smiling, all right.