Mass Timber Construction Podcast
Mass Timber Construction Podcast
Special Guest - Michaela Harms - From Helsinki Forests to the Future of Mass Timber
Curious about the future of sustainable construction? Join us as Michaela Harms, the Senior Director of Mass Timber for Sterling Structural, shares her fascinating journey from the forests of Helsinki to the forefront of the mass timber industry. Learn how Michaela’s passion for the environment and her engineering expertise are driving innovations at Sterling Structural, which has transitioned from rugged industrial matting to producing cutting-edge CLT panels for commercial buildings.
Explore the factors shaping the mass timber industry across the globe. Uncover how different regulatory environments in the EU and the US impact industry growth and sustainability initiatives. Hear about the promising trends in multifamily housing and the resurgence of the hospitality sector post-COVID, and how these are setting the stage for mass timber’s expansion. Michaela provides valuable insights into the collaborative spirit that spans the EU, Australia, and the US, emphasizing the collective effort to enhance forest economies and create beautiful, sustainable built environments.
Dive into the nuts and bolts of mass timber manufacturing with a deep dive into the innovative techniques transforming the construction landscape. Michaela discusses the integration of engineering and project management services to streamline supply chains and enhance efficiency. Gain practical advice for newcomers, especially women, as Michaela highlights the significance of mentorship and networking in sustaining industry knowledge and fostering community. Whether you’re a seasoned professional or just stepping into the mass timber world, this episode is packed with insights that promise to inspire and inform.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live. This is the moment you all have been waiting for. It's time for the global sensation, the one, the only the undisputed heavyweight podcast in the world the Mass Timber Construction Podcast. And now here's Paul Kramer, your host.
Speaker 2:Good morning, good afternoon or good evening. Wherever you are in the world today, welcome to the Mass Timber Construction Podcast. I'm Paul Kramer, your host, and back again with a guest that we've been trying to work out at time, but it's been very difficult to nail it down. But that's not unusual because I'm in Melbourne and she's in central time in the US, and so it's really a matter of just trying to align our diaries. But it's good morning from me, michaela, and please introduce yourself and tell our audience who you are, what you do and how you got there.
Speaker 3:Wonderful. Well, good evening from me. I'm Michaela Harms. I'm the Senior Director of Mass Timber for Sterling Structural. We are a cross-laminated timber manufacturer with two facilities in the Midwest, one in just south of Chicago in Illinois, and another in Texas.
Speaker 3:I'm actually based up in the north in the US, up in Wisconsin, and I got into mass timber largely because I grew up loving the forest, absolutely being a total outdoors kid, and when I went into engineering and did a lot of farm work, I just knew that building and being around natural materials was something I really loved. And lots of farm work. I just knew that building and being around natural materials was something I really loved. So I studied civil engineering and building construction in Helsinki, finland, and for many people in this industry, we all know that Finland is very known for their wood products, for their forests, and so in that university study I was very exposed to wood construction and so that's what we did.
Speaker 3:We were on a lot of job sites and when I came out of that I moved back to the States and I was actually running an R&D department for a wood products manufacturer, because I learned very quickly that, being a engineer that did not know much about steel or concrete at all.
Speaker 3:I found my place in manufacturing and in general I actually think it was a better place for me too, because I love seeing how things get made. I love that whole process of the supply chain bringing, bringing things through. And so then I worked, um, like I said, with some research and development, uh, in cooperation with the USDA forest products laboratory, uh, and then uh got into a certification of wood products for European manufacturers and Canadian manufacturers looking to sell in the U S? Uh, and got to, you know, meet a lot of great people through that and then started my own consultancy for a while. That brought me here today to bring Sterling's cross-laminated timber from the industrial markets that they largely serve in access matting and big log roads for infrastructure development to building construction, which is what most people think Mass Timber is. So it's been a really cool journey and I'm excited to talk more about it.
Speaker 2:And is the rumor true that, because you're from Wisconsin, that Miller Kunis knocked you out of that 70s show spot so you moved to Phoenix?
Speaker 3:That's what happened. You know what I will take that. We're about the same age, so that would work out pretty nicely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my acting career didn't go very well, so unfortunately, here I am in mass timber we're very pleased to have you and I think the big innovation has been in my time is sterling is known for effectively what we've called in Australia mud mats, and you know, trying to make these sort of uh, unduly terrains suitable for heavy machinery and and protecting the wilderness at the same time, and I remember doing some investigation into it and the connection systems, from memory, were very steel systems and and and. To then hear a few years ago that you'd come on board and were making a move into, you know, the commercialization of mass timber for the built environment rather than for this industrial market was a significant step forward. When it comes to the sort of size of the organization, you know how much of a proportion is still doing what was traditionally done and how much inroads you're making into the commercial built environment sector yeah, excellent question.
Speaker 3:So sterling as a company it's a third generation family wood products company. You know they started in, uh, very specialty dunnage and really really cool things for multiple different products within the industry. Um, they entered the industrial matting space first through the hardwood industrial mats that a lot of people are used to, those big heavy hardwood bolted mats. Um, and they said, know, we could probably do this more efficiently, this business is more efficiently, this is really growing. And how do we get? You know, these things are awesome but they're so heavy let's start thinking about a more engineered product. So they got exposed to CLT. They toured all over the different European manufacturers because this was early 2000. So there wasn't a lot in the States yet. You know Sterling was one of the first CLT manufacturers in the States, even though most of them were focused on structural. They were like focused on this industrial business. Uh, so they built this line, produced a panel does produce a panel every 65 seconds uh, to get that quantity of products. Because now they can put more of these mud mats, like you call them, on a truck. When you can put more on a truck you can get more mileage out of that road, in that you know, those very rural kind of hard to access areas, and so that's still the legacy business, that's still our main business. We do have these two facilities and currently we're only running our structural material out of our Chicago facility. That's not going to be for very long because the structural market's really growing. So I mean you see it from any of the research out in the entire industry that everyone is getting excited about this product. It's getting used more and more in a wider market.
Speaker 3:So initially, when I started communicating with sterling about this, this um endeavor many years ago, they were like you know, where is it a fad? We're not so sure yet. It's kind of the structural side of this is new. We, we totally get mud mats, we totally get industrial. Let's like really look at this. And at that time it was true, you know, in the mid 2010s it was more high end, maybe some libraries, museums, these kinds of custom excitement. But we've seen that change where now it's multifamily, now it's lodging, now it's office, it's pretty much any building. And that's the direction we want to go. We want to say how wide can we make this market?
Speaker 3:I always my my ultimate goal is how can we get CLT to be more of a commodity style product, so that every strip mall, every Chick-fil-A, every McDonald's, you know whatever type of building is really built from this material, because it supports domestic industry in all of our countries. You know, we have these incredible natural resources in every one of our countries. To be able to support that in a regenerative manner uh, is really powerful and exciting. And local manufacturing, uh. And it's not like we're going to replace all the steel or replace all the concrete.
Speaker 3:I want to be really clear that all of the materials have a purpose in these markets. But the one thing that everybody knows is we do need more buildings. We especially need more housing. So why not add another product at more of that commodity, accessible, standardized level to the mix so we can really meet those markets? So back to finally answering your question here. Structure is really starting to take the lead in our company and continuing to, you know, grab more of our capacity and grab more of our capacity. But the fun thing about Sterling is, as we grow, we just keep growing our capacity and that's we're in a really good place to keep serving both markets.
Speaker 2:And questions you probably don't get asked from other media sources. You know what was the biggest difference between the time you spent in the EU and what were the specific lessons you brought to the US that our audience might want to know about?
Speaker 3:Oh, this is one of my favorites and when I was running my consulting business, I did work with a lot of European manufacturers and European companies specifically to talk about the big differences. So I was educated in Europe. I got to experience my first years of working in this industry in Europe. The biggest differences are what drives industry. So within the EU, regulation does a great job of driving industry. When they really want to take steps towards sustainability and things like that, that regulation can drive industry, whereas in the US it's entirely the opposite. Industry drives what ultimately, eventually, later, many years down the road, is regulation.
Speaker 3:So in the States, often when we wanna make a change, it is made. The change is made through the industry, like through all of the people at these companies coming together and saying we want sustainability, we want our clients want a sustainability. You know the big tech companies if they ask for it now, they're driving the demand, and then the industry follows along and then the regulation comes later. And that was one thing that was always fascinating in talking with these European companies is they would be like well, no, no, no, the regulation has to come first and then that's what drives us all to make these decisions, and I'm like we're cavaliers over here and that is not how it works in the States.
Speaker 3:But you know, there's a happy medium. Maybe it's Canada, I don't know. They might be the happy medium, but there is a happy medium between those two approaches. But I think, ultimately, one thing I love about this industry is all of us do want to do better. We do want to make better products, make better buildings, make them faster, make them more lovely to be in, and so I do think we're on a good path here, but there's definitely a lot of differences in the way you work with those markets in the olymp Olympics that just happened in Paris.
Speaker 2:There was an American commentator that was very critical of Australia for counting gold medals as the first indicator for the ranking of countries, which meant that Australia came seventh, or something like that. The US didn't get first, I think it was China, but you certainly were up there In the competitive stakes of mass timber around the world. I think it was China, but you certainly were up there In the competitive stakes of mass timber around the world. And we look at adoption. Given that Australia probably progressed a little bit faster than the US, do you think the US is upset about coming third in that race, behind the EU and Australia?
Speaker 3:No, not at all, I think that we're just excited to be like.
Speaker 3:That's what I actually really love about the mass timber industry is we're all just excited to be here, like we're like learning from each other. Obviously, like I maintain good relationships with a lot of the European manufacturers and have had many great conversation with Australian manufacturers and design groups over the years, I think we've all done such a good job of lifting each other up and learning from each other. I don't feel like there's that same competitive intensity right that we see with a lot of these other types of products, and now maybe, though, when we get to the point that it becomes the standard it becomes the gold standard, if you will, of building products, maybe that competition will come up there. But ultimately, everybody I've met in this industry is, like you know, riding tides brings up all boats, and that's what we want to do, and so I don't see it getting too seedy out there. If you work with trees, you always you know you're a little calmer you always feel good, it's all about, you know, building up the forest. So that's my approach.
Speaker 2:I think you're right, I think you're right, I think you're right.
Speaker 3:Let's just say we're right. Right, no, but I'm from the Midwest. We're known for being nice, so maybe that's a little bit of it. But no, I really do believe that we're all kind of in this together to just keep building out markets that support forests and support forest economies. And you know, you see the effects of it, and so it's really cool to kind of see how the industry as a whole is just really supportive all the way across.
Speaker 2:And when it comes to drivers of the market now we know the inception of mass timber. A significant number of drivers are maybe not so much in the market now we know the inception of mass timber. A significant number of drivers are maybe not so much in the industrial market. I think that was sort of EWP product innovation. You know logistics and you know because of the lightweightness of the material you could pack more on the load, so efficiency came through. But many of the drivers originally were around this requirement for sustainability, the aesthetic of timber and the engineering and the efficiency and prefabrication. And, of course, you know, trying to reduce on-site staffing, which and reduce preliminaries in projects, which reduce costs. What do you think the future drivers are going to be? What are you seeing? Is the trend? You know because industry, as you mentioned in the us, is driving this and codes are catching up. What's, what's the mega trend for, for growth here? Is it, as I probably housing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do think it's multifamily housing and multifamily residential projects that are going to be the next, like big, big driver, and it's getting it right though you have to really get it right, I think, at least in our market. We're so starved for multifamily housing, we're so starved for housingamily housing, we're so starved for housing in general. We have, you know, we know we need to build more, but housing is such a unique building product because it needs to feel good. You live in it, right, like it becomes your home, and so I'm sitting here in my timber home and it is something that matters to me. I love being in this space. It makes me feel good. I love that. I know that these are timbers that come from our region, so I do think that that's definitely a next big one. I also we just recently finished up a hotel, and I think that's another great. You know, I think lodging and hospitality post COVID is really coming back and they're coming back in a way where they need to also differentiate themselves, but they're great. You know, I think lodging and hospitality post COVID is really coming back and they're coming back in a way where they need to also differentiate themselves, but they're also being scrutinized.
Speaker 3:Where's your sustainability aspects? Like what? What are you doing to support this community when we're talking about tourism? Like we've all kind of shifted our brains a little bit on how we look at all these different spaces? Um, I really I think you're right, though, that the affordable and, you know, mixed rate housing is a huge opportunity to utilize domestic products and, in any country right, or regional products where we need it a little bit faster. We also want to make sure that the people who are there are in a space that is healthy, is sustainable, makes you feel good and can last a long time.
Speaker 3:Like there's a good longevity to mass timber construction. It's sturdy, you know you can feel it right, and I'm excited to see where it all goes goes, but we're starting to get even a lot of inquiry on uh, you know, large scale single family residential development. So I think people are we know we need to build, but we know we need to build better, um, and so I think we're kind of looking at every building typology and saying how can we incorporate mass timber? It doesn't need to be an all or nothing game. I think that's one of the mistakes, as an entire industry, that we have made in the past was well, if it's not all of it, then maybe it's none of it. I think that hybrid construction actually is going to be one of the next biggest drivers. The amount of projects where I'm seeing our CLT panels on spanning steel is exciting to me. It's something I like to see because it means we can work together. You know we're sending mock-ups for trainings at the iron workers unions now. How cool is that? They know it's coming too.
Speaker 2:How cool is that? They know it's coming too. So I think that if I could pick one big driver, I think the hybrid purpose and industry says the same thing. You don't need research to pick that up, and I think you're right.
Speaker 2:In fact, most of the major buildings that exist in Australia that are commercial buildings don't have a timber basement or foundation. They come off a transfer or a podium, off a concrete deck, and so there is this requirement to work in with other materials, and I think we did initially think, you know, material purity was a key concept, but that's changed because we're demanding more from the mass timber in our buildings longer spans, for example, removal of columns, et cetera, et cetera, continuous floor systems that are a composite system. The ADM building in Washington DC that Katerrara did has a composite core system which goes up to two wings which have CLT sort of branching out, which I think was an old WeWork building from from memory and, and so composite is really the way to go, and steel fits beautifully because steel works within similar tolerances to, to, to crosslaminated timber when it comes off a CNC millimeters rather than probably wet-form concrete, which is, you know, inches deviation from where it's meant to sometimes be no disrespect to the concrete, I'm sure very, very good. Sometimes they do deviate a little bit. So this mega trend is continuing and and so, to that end, the question I guess I have is when you've got your plant and you produce your panels, are you being asked to add things to your panels as like additional value, like brackets and connection systems, etc.
Speaker 2:In the factory um wrap? Are you sanding panels? You know what's, what's your sort of value add to the products when it goes through the plant?
Speaker 3:yeah, absolutely so. When it comes to our products, um, we are doing quite a bit of in plant value add, uh, complementary products, right. So so we first and foremost are a CLT manufacturer, but we do supply glue them. We supply it through partners that we have all over the States. We also you know, I joke a little bit we've supplied steel packages on hybrid projects. So we are really reaching out and saying, hey, everybody, we do want to work together, let's keep doing this. And we're starting to see even the installers do some multi-trade work. It really depends on the region, but we are starting to see that.
Speaker 3:But in factory, obviously, we have all of the CNC fabrication required. We are trying to work with designers to say let's make our panels more repeatable and not quite so cnc heavy when we can. It's not every every project, but for certain projects, the more repeatable you make it, the the easier it is to get your project out faster and more efficiently. And then we have air and water barriers that will actually um apply in the factory to the face of the panels, whether it's a wall or for a roof system. And then it makes it really nice for the installer on site, cause all they have to do is tape the seams right. So that's a nice one. Um, we do do pre-applied rigging systems. So, uh, right now the air and water barriers that we're working with are is through vapor shield, and then the rigging systems. We've been using both the Roto Blast WASP system, so we'll have those rigging points already put into those panels. They're on the shop drawings for everybody to review and then when it comes into site, you know they can pick them right off the truck if they want to, or they can stage them on site. I would say that the rigging one is very helpful for the installers who are a little newer and are trying to learn what works for them.
Speaker 3:There's great products with Rota Bloss and Bolt Simpson Strong Tie. Those are also the people we work with most for our connection packages. We try to work with the engineer as much as possible to move towards off the shelf connections Again for that expedited delivery. We can do those custom steel connections that we've all been working with for so many years. My background is more in the timber framing world where we custom fab every steel connection world, where we custom fab every steel connection.
Speaker 3:But I do challenge a lot of our engineers to say how much of this can we get off the shelf to make it more repeatable? Because I can call Simpson or wrote the boss and we can have that there in a week, right, like we need to work with the supply chains that we have. We are also doing clear coat in our facility, no matter what, we are edge coating our panels because of that, you know that that's your biggest problem for water ingress, so that's just for protection, no matter what. But that face coat will do a clear coat in the factory for projects that want that and let's see those are.
Speaker 1:Those are the main ones.
Speaker 3:and then as far as sanding of panels, yes, we have a visual appearance grade and we treat it a little differently. Some people have like a premium for a visual appearance and they'll really sort out boards for those tiny knots the way that we do it. Again, we're really looking to be more commodity work with the existing supply chain. We'll sort the material for wane and we'll flip it for wane so you have that really nice plain surface and then we'll treat the panels in our facility with a little more care. That face will say, hey, this is the visual face, be nice to it, right. And then it'll be, you know, a nice, highly plain sanded surface. And so those are the main adders that we're doing right now and we're always looking to learn from both the installers in multiple regions. You know the States and Australia are very similar in this way that like one area is not like another.
Speaker 3:So I think one thing I find most interesting about the prefabrication conversation is it really depends on your labor pool how beneficial that is. You know, I think we started again with that mentality of everything should be done in the plant because it's going to make life so much easier. Well, we have so many great installation and carpentry teams who can probably sometimes more efficiently do that work in the field right. So that's a conversation we have. With every project we work on, we say understand your labor pool. In your region you might have people that want to do more of it on site. One of the wonderful things about mass timber is it's super easy to drill a hole through it for your pipes if you need to, and plumbers don't always put pipes in the same spot. They're going to tell you they do so if you prefab that they might drill a different hole anyway.
Speaker 3:Um, so that's just. Like you know, I think we're more flexible on on some of that stuff. Like we've even had projects where we sold commodity stock glue, lamb and the carpenters on site were like no problem, we're really well trained in this stuff, we're going to cut it all on site. And then there's other regions that don't have that same labor pool and they say we need everything done before it gets here because we're really limited on labor. So it's just really working with your with who, with your project team, and having those conversations early to just define what is best as a value add in the plant and what is still best left to the traditional construction industry and the amazing people who've been supporting it for so long.
Speaker 2:And do you have construction crews yourself? Everyone seems to be moving towards either staying in the CLT supply lane with some add-on services, as we've just discussed, and that's happening here as well. But in other regions you know, in this particular area, Oceania there are construction crews employed by the CLT manufacturers, including engineering crews, and now they're augmenting the business. It's becoming a hybrid entity. The supply chain requires a plug-in, so this organization plugs in the engineers, or plugs in the construction crew, or plugs in project management. Are you seeing a similar trend over there?
Speaker 3:I'm starting to see some of it, but I do think we include all project management within our own team. Like that. We definitely include and we do all the design assist. Like our team, we have all the in, you know, internal engineers, architects, bim designers. But, that said, we are trying to get rid of the redundancy of designers in the business because it's expensive and we're at a really incredible point. Mass Timber Group in the States actually just looked at all the different stakeholders in AEC and they said architects and engineers, when they went out and did a poll they are well-versed at this point. There has been so much work to get them up to speed, um, and that was really cool to see that Cause that's what I've also been seeing. So when they actually aggregated the data via feedback, it was nice to see that Um. And so we work with the engineer of record and the architect of record and we say we're going to help you and we're going to be here for you and we're, like, you know, a part of our package, we'll hold your hand through it. But we, you know, we can do delegated through partners. But the redundancy of designers slows things down and it's more expensive. So we try to move the needle a little bit from that space.
Speaker 3:Project management I think you always want to be as good to your general contractor installers as possible. So we are right there with project management dedicated project managers on every project. When it comes to install, we are not going to get in to install ourselves, because then we're starting to compete with the people who bring us to projects. Right, some people are doing it, you're absolutely right. I'm seeing that that they're becoming these kind of big turnkey services. Um, I again, you know what's our expertise. We're great clt manufacturers. Uh, we've got a lot of extra things in there with with a, with our seasoned team, but that's really where we focus. So I go back again to our network of installers and general contractors and we work with them as far as any of the other you know, services.
Speaker 3:Only time is really going to tell how this all shakes out. But when I think of the US market, another thing about the US market is it's a little stubborn, right, like we've done things traditionally a certain way, where there are material suppliers and there are, you know, and it's a little segmented. I think one thing I love about the mass timber industry is it's forcing all these people to work together a little bit better, like not be so segmented as a team once we're on a project together. But I don't know yet if a full turnkey team is the answer. I still think it's more just. Hey, let's all start working together a little better and be more collaborative.
Speaker 3:And it's super cool that Wood has done that. Wood has gotten teams that traditionally are not collaborative to be more collaborative. So only time will tell on that one. But no, at this time we're not going to get more collaborative. So only time will tell on that one. But no, at this time we're not gonna get into install. We have so many amazing install partners who are much smarter than us and we're not gonna try to be smarter than them.
Speaker 2:So no, it's fine, it's each to one's own when it comes to strategy and market and approach. And I think things evolve over time and that's a natural progression in any market. And I think you're right. The timber has required, through the necessity, to have a prefabrication, have a digital footprint, because we have to design every element of these buildings for a factory to produce. It means that we need to talk, we need to collaborate and I think it's the greatest thing that has come out of this sector is the drive of that collaboration.
Speaker 2:I think it's true for other material types that are doing, say, 3d, volumetric unitized collaboration. I think it's true for other material types that are doing, say, 3d, volumetric unitised building. I think they do it as well. So I wouldn't say we're exclusive. But I also think the connection to sustainability and that nature aspect which is in a human drawcard we're all drawn to nature in some way and and that's a really special, special consideration for us in our industry. If I can just ask some technical questions, you might not be able to answer it and that's fine, but are you using cad work or hsb cad for your design work?
Speaker 3:yeah, so we use revit with hsb, cad, um, and then we do. We have built some of our own systems internally in the way that we work through our shop drawing and panelization process, so we have such a great team of designers. I'm so grateful every day for the people I work with so some of them are CAD work wizards and things like that but for our system, and again with that focus on streamlining, we did want to start from Revit and say this is what the majority of the industry here, as far as when we're working with the project as it comes to us, is using. And that's where we started and built off of HSBCAD and that's where we are right now. But we're all about continuous improvement and seeing where we can go with that.
Speaker 2:And HSBCAD has a capacity that when you you get it out of the box, you know it's a pretty simple thing to work with. You have to script things. Are you scripting your own shortcuts and things like that on site, or are you still sort of connected to the mothership and getting those teams to help you? A?
Speaker 3:little bit of both. So, and right now it's fun because we recently, within the last like oh gosh, I think it was about five or six months ago now we've got our new five axis CNC and that has really helped us again look at our processes and say what is the way that we can streamline this. And so we have an entire R&D team with wonderfully I'm again very grateful that they're so smart in the ways that they can script things and write those types of codes to help us get those processes to be more efficient. And so our R&D team works with our CNC team and our design team to continuously say this is really working well, this isn't working as well.
Speaker 3:So I would say our team's a bit more dynamic and working on finding the right solution, just like everybody else, because there's no, you know, there's definitely no turnkey solution for that in the industry right now. So it's very cool to see how everyone else is using the tools that are out there, and then the so many brilliant minds within this industry who are building out these different processes.
Speaker 2:And for the absolute diehard fans of machinery and equipment what line are you running, what manufacturer or brand is it and what CNC are you running?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we actually have multiple. We are so lucky that we had a really brilliant manufacturing engineer out of. He's a Detroit guy, so he came from the automotive plastic injections industry and so he hodgepodge every one of his favorite manufacturers together. So it's pretty cool. We're like the Technicolor Dreamcoat line and I definitely invite people who are in the region of chicago to come visit our facility to see that.
Speaker 3:Um, we do use a minda press at the end of the line, that, that one where we're um, as far as you know, kind of the final hydraulic press. Um, and then we did get our cnc through cr ansred, which is a us manufacturer. Uh, you know, we looked at all of the different options and it is great to see that there are more options growing. You know, like there there's so many more things out there than there were even, you know, five or ten years ago for machinery um, and so we've been, we've been pretty happy with the approach of using multiple manufacturers for their best capabilities, rather than.
Speaker 3:This is again maybe where we like to build the things ourselves rather than going to a turnkey whole system supplier. We really said this is what we want for the infeed line, this is what we want for the layup line and this is what we want for the infeed line, this is what we want for the layup line and this is what we want for our planers. So, um again, I wish John Rake a happy retirement. He just retired a week ago, but I'm a little sad because he's he's definitely the godfather of our line.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask if the person from Detroit was Axel Foley, but obviously it's not. From Detroit was Axel Foley? But obviously it's not. So, um, it's. I was going to ask people to go and ask at the plant for Axel um to show you through, and, uh, we'll call your system Frankenstein and it sounds like it's from everywhere, right?
Speaker 3:That's true, yep, yep, and sometimes that's what you have to do, right? Sometimes you have to say this is your strength, and this is your strength, and this is your strength. And that's what's so cool about bringing the automotive and plastic injections mentality to wood products, because it's very different and that was one of the things that really caught me differently with Sterling. I've been in, you know, I used to audit a lot of facilities, so I've been in many mass timber facilities and I've just never seen that very highly automated line is a little bit more grand and moves a little bit in a different way, whereas when you talk to an automotive engineer, and my husband's a mechanical engineer, so I know like it's just a very different mentality than the traditional wood products manufacturing mentality, but I think that's what gives us a little bit of an edge.
Speaker 2:What's the? What's the name plate? Capacity of your plant? What can it produce in a year?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we have two facilities, uh, each of them have the capacity for about 300 000 cubic meters per year that's pretty impressive yeah, it's fun. It's cool to see we go through a lot of lumber.
Speaker 2:We go through a lot of lumber we've um come to the end of the time, uh sure. Before you go, though, I'd like to just ask you could you just tell the listeners of our podcast, you know, what would you give yourself as tips if you could come back into the industry again and do it over again and, being a lovely lady who's been very generous with your time, assist with women in this industry? What would you say to all the ladies out there that are considering coming into the sector, and the advice you would give yourself if you started over again.
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness, I just I feel like I've been very blessed in the way that I've had excellent mentors, um, so what?
Speaker 3:I always tell young women I do a lot of, um, uh, mentoring of young women in the industry, and, uh, there's the women in science and engineering programs at many of the universities here. Uh, I really like to let them know that, you know, you don't even have to be extroverted, but try to be outgoing, try to ask questions, even if you think it's not going to come across right, because I do remember that I remember being so nervous because I was surrounded by a bunch of older folks that looked nothing like me, that's for sure, that's for sure. And, um, you know, I'm really grateful for my mother, who's very outgoing and and pushed, always pushed us to go ask for the things that we wanted to learn about, and so, uh, that's what I would tell you to do. You know, go out there and ask and say, hey, I want to learn about this, I want to be a part of this, even if it's somebody that you think might not give you the time of day. First of all, they might not
Speaker 3:And then but the but the. You know the better side of that they might, and I've had so many excellent mentors from the U S forest service, from a lot of these traditional wood products companies across the States and across Europe who have given me the time. But but I had to ask for it and that can be really, really scary. But even more I think the better advice is for the people who have been in this industry for a long time. If you see somebody in that corner who looks a little shy, looks a little different, clearly wants to be there but doesn't know how, go over them, grab them by the shoulder, pull them in, start talking to them, because they do want to be a part of it. You know, if you show up, even into the space, you want to be a part of it. You don't always know the best avenue and I think that's a big thing.
Speaker 3:In engineering in general, we have a huge shortage of young engineers and a lot of it is that the doors aren't opening.
Speaker 3:You know the doors keep closing on this incredible knowledge that is retiring and retiring. So I keep asking everybody who's had time in the industry? We're all so busy and we're and we need to make more time to keep the industry sustainable and keep passing on our knowledge and passing on even just stories. There's not. There's so much knowledge that I've gotten, uh, just over a beer, finding somebody who worked at Weyerhaeuser or worked at Trust Choice and has the whole story of what happened in the 70s and 80s and the expansion of engineered wood products. Sitting down and having a beer and just listening to the stories is incredible amounts of knowledge passing and I think that you know we all need to make sure we make that time, because that time is so important in our busy days to just sit together and, you know, reminisce and pass on knowledge and build some community body, and it sounds like you're doing already a great job in mentoring others, and I would encourage anyone else out there to do the same, no matter who the young person is.
Speaker 2:We need more people coming in, because we're all going to grow old and get ugly, and we need more people to come through. One final question before I get you to give your company a plug Um, I noticed that from my podcast there's no hair color change and I'm a bit disappointed. Um, so next time we come on, what will the color of your hair be?
Speaker 3:Oh, I want my fun. So I just, I have a six month old child, so I uh, I have a fresh baby. And when you have a when you're so, I uh, I have a fresh baby. And when you have a when you're pregnant and then you have kids, it's hard to maintain the fun, but I'm gonna get back to it. So next time we talk, let's go for blue, let's try for blue, because it could be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think blue is a good color. The podcast color is orange, like a burnt, so that might go well with the blue. So could we go a burnt orange maybe.
Speaker 3:Well, we'll see where we land. We'll see where we land, that sounds great.
Speaker 2:Well, look, thanks for your time. Just give the company a plug, yourself a plug. How do people get in contact with you if they want to reach out to you? And not Axel, because he's retired now, but you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I'm so delighted. Thanks for having me. So you know we are Sterling Structural. You can go to sterlingstructuralcom and learn a little bit more about our approach to the mass timber market. You can get in touch with me either through Michaela Harms at SterlingSolutionscom, and, if I don't have the right answer for you, I've got an entire team that I'm ready to introduce you to. We also, through our website, have an inquiries page for where you can throw in some questions about a project or whatever you're looking for. We're really happy to help Give us a call or whatever you're looking for. We're really happy to help Give us a call and I hope to hear from people and I hope to keep moving this industry forward and having a lot of fun while we're doing it.
Speaker 2:We're media partners for the International Mass Timber Conference in March in Portland in 2025. Will you be at the rooftop bar in the Eastland Hotel this next conference?
Speaker 3:You will absolutely see me there. This year was one of the first years, I think, since the second year they started that I missed it Because I just had my kiddo, so absolutely worth it to miss it, but it was weird. I have to tell you. I got a lot of messages from folks saying where are you. So we will definitely be there and I look forward to chatting with anybody who is there the hotel's pretty much selling out quickly.
Speaker 2:So get your tickets for hotel accommodation, get your tickets for the event and um, we'll have arnie on the show and we'll see you at the rooftop bar at the eastland. Thank you for your time. Go back and have a great evening. I will start my day and thank you for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.